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I think there are some leaps in the article, especially revolving around the concepts of calling this suicide or a sacrifice.

First of all, not all bee species even have stingers and only honeybees have barbed stingers. Even then, honeybees do not always die when stinging animals, such as insects, as only mammalian and maybe avian skin is thick enough to retain the barb.

Calling this suicide or a sacrifice seems to imply that the honeybee workers are aware of possible death when stinging a mammal, which I haven’t read evidence of, and I don’t think it’s something we have the ability to know. And honeybees only live a few months, so it’s a very human-centric viewpoint nonetheless.

Is it known whether this is an evolutionary strategy vs an evolutionary mistake? I suppose that isn’t really a question we can answer. The only thing I can think of is that mammals are larger and if the venom keeps pumping after the bee removes itself, then that would inject more venom. But for larger animals, is there a strong need for the bee to only be active in the sting temporarily? It seems a honeybee with a smooth barb could just sting a larger animal longer, removing the “need” (of the above hypothesis is true) of stinging for a short time but leaving the venom producing system behind.



Both of your "criticisms" Are discussed in the article.


Yes. If only people read TFA (which was very thorough) before opining at length:

> These altruistic acts are typically not done consciously, they have simple been formed by natural selection to act in this way. For instance, your neutrophils do not consciously commit suicide, they have just been shaped to do that by evolution. And of course you don't go out thinking "Hm yes I will save you two from drowning because you are each 5/8 related to me." Although maybe one biologist did actually think like this.


See other comment. The article does a lot of bouncing around this and frequently refers to suicide and sacrifice without qualification.


I feel like ordinary good faith is enough to make sense of how the article is using those terms and the qualification is indeed there, and quoted above.


I can read an article and come away with a different sentiment and opinion without it being so called bad faith.


I read the article and didn’t feel it was adequately addressed.


Biological altruism refers to an individual giving up some of their reproductive fitness to help another individual reproduce.

These altruistic acts are typically not done consciously, they have simple been formed by natural selection to act in this way.


I'm not sure if you can call it biological when the worker Bee has zero individual reproductive fitness.


only if you implicitly think that “biological” means “there is a hard line between individual and collective life and one doesn’t count for some reason”.


I agree, no notes.




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